When is ‘justice’ not justice?

In on-going conversations with David of Theology Archaeology, I can only express my disappointment at the lack of empathy and understanding for the anger which has gripped black communities in America. I do not condone violence and rioting, but when avenues for peaceful protests are blocked and mocked, when police aggression against black people remains high, and when nothing is getting done, that leaves people with very few options.

There is also the need for a distinction. Not every protester is a looter. Not every protester is engaging in violent, destructive activity.

This isn’t just about George Floyd. This situation runs deeper, and has been going on for longer. Breonna Taylor, an EMT in Louisville, Kentucky, was killed when she was shot eight times by police who burst into her home, using a no-knock warrant. Her boyfriend opened fire on the unannounced invaders into his home, defending his property against what must have looked like a terrifying attack on his home. Several cops did not follow procedure – they did not wear body cameras and according to reports, did not announce themselves. As is normal, no police officers were charged with any wrong-doing. Why did they carry out their home invasion? They were looking for drugs, which they did not find, and it transpires some of the people they suspected of involvement in a drugs operation were already in custody, so the police were looking for people they already had!

I could go on. What about the case of Tamir Rice, a 12 year-old boy shot and killed by an over-zealous officer. What about Eric Garner, who died in similar circumstances to George Floyd? On these occasions, no criminal charges have been brought against the police officers involved. Massively disproportionate force, resulting in loss of life, is typically met with dismissal from the force, and sometimes, not even that.

So what should be done David? Where is the ‘justice’ in all this? In the case of Garner, the courts even ruled his death to be a homicide, yet no charges have been brought against the officers involved. Is that reasonable?

David, you claim I approve of illegal behaviour. This is a lie. I have made no such claim. You seem to think that allegedly committing a crime (you keep calling George a criminal, though there is no proof he actually committed a crime in that instance) justifies the actions of Chauvin in crushing his neck for eight minutes. You cast blanket statements upon every protester, which is unreasonable. I would urge you to actually think, properly, about what is truly right and wrong.

12 thoughts on “When is ‘justice’ not justice?

  1. P.S. you are distorting again as you think that so called peaceful demonstrations can be done when under contract and on a work day. You leave out so many details it makes it impossible to discuss anything with you. You are just not honest

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    1. You know who can’t go to work anymore “Christian” George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice will never be able to work and help his community. You need to just be quiet, unless you can come up with anything actually helpful or relevant. Or, even, for god sakes, something actually KIND. The POINT of protests, is that they are SUPPOSED to be inconvenient. YOU are exactly the kind of person that is making people turn away from the Church. You just need to be quiet, unless you’ve got something kind to say.

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      1. You hit the nail on the head. The police officers involved in Floyd’s death *might* face prosecution (though the record for actually convicting cops is woeful). Many cops in these situations get paid suspensions, and often end up back at work in law enforcement. George Floyd will never get the chance to go back to work. Is that God’s justice at work David?

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      2. I’m copying in my replies to David here, since I don’t know if he will actually publish them on his site:

        You act as though George Floyd had already been convicted and sentenced for allegedly committing a crime – I remind you, as I have mentioned before, he did not receive due process. He was instead killed, needlessly, by a man kneeling on his neck for eight minutes. Even *if* he were guilty of using counterfeit currency, does this in any way shape or form justify what happened to him? You have avoided answering that since our conversations on this topic began.

        Moreover, your conflation of riot with protest is evidence of your own lack of understanding. I do not condone rioting, but there are many peaceful protests taking place as well. You are lumping these protests in as being ‘criminal activities’, which is completely unreasonable.

        You only mention cops being killed as a means to distract from the original subject. I’m not sure whether this is the red herring fallacy at work, or the straw man fallacy. I can just as easily say you have zero empathy for a man being needlessly choked to death by a cop who believed himself to be judge and jury and executioner.

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      1. I’ve issued a reply to a new post of his, but he don’t expect him to answer my questions.

        You keep insisting George Floyd committed a crime – this is not factual David. Being arrested and being charged are two different things. Moreover, you have repeatedly failed to answer whether or not justice was done, despite repeatedly talking about the importance of justice jn respect of the police officers who were arrested. Why can’t you see that what happened to George Floyd was a travesty, and not actually justice? There’s video evidence of his airway being choked for eight minutes, whilst he was surrounded by other cops. I ask again, is that right? Is that good, Godly justice in action?

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      2. I’m not the one using circular reasoning David. You know full well that an accusation is not proof of guilt, yet you have decided George Floyd was definitely guilty. Worse, you have continued to fail to justify, in any way shape or form, how alleged counterfeiting permits murder. Frankly, it is both cowardly and disgusting that you won’t offer even the slightest condemnation of an obviously needless choke hold, on an unarmed man, over a counterfeit note. What’s even worse is that you mention cops being killed to distract from this.

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      3. The protests are illegal, subjective, selfish, immoral and lack any credibility. Those people also do not practice justice or fairness removing anything of value they may have had to offer but as it stands they only offer bullying, injustice, unfairness and stupidity.

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      4. In the end it’s up to you whether you let my comments through on your site, however I’ll be sharing this exchange and my final comment on my own site, to offer a complete perspective.

        I am greatly disappointed that you can repeatedly condemn a man for allegedly counterfeiting currency, calling him a criminal although you are well aware due process was denied to him. The courts did not have the opportunity to decide his fate, not that the death penalty was ever going to be such a sentence, yet a police officer took it upon himself to pin George Floyd to the floor, pressing his knee on Floyd’s neck, until he couldn’t breathe. There is video evidence of this, and video evidence of other cops doing absolutely nothing to prevent what was unfolding, and you cannot bring yourself to speak out, despite repeatedly speaking out about Floyd’s alleged crime, as though that justifies what happened to him.

        Even *if* Floyd were guilty of deliberately using counterfeit currency, what happened to him wasn’t right. You can remain silent on that, and just tells me you are not really interested in justice. You know full well no justice was served to Floyd, and yet you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that. I have to wonder as to why you apply such double-standard David. I had not had you down as a racist, but your refusal to see what happened to Floyd for what it was (and worse, even defend it in the guise of justice) is deeply troubling. Even worse, you then decided to try and alter the subject by bringing up police deaths, and you lump peaceful protesters in with rioters, when you know full well there is a distinction. That David, is dishonest, and I wasn’t aware dishonesty was a noble Christian virtue.

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